Transcript of an interview conducted on our YouTube channel.
Maj Gen (Dr) Ashok Kumar (Retd):
Today, we’ll be discussing one of the most important topics in the defense domain—Technology Transfer, or ToT. We are honored to have with us Mr. Pradeep Gupta, a subject matter expert on this issue. Mr. Gupta is not only a technocrat with deep insights into technology, but he’s also a bureaucrat with over 33 years of experience, notably with the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Home Affairs. His inputs today will be invaluable.
Mr. Gupta is an officer who has done remarkable work in various fields, earning multiple awards. He has worked as an Officer on Special Duty (OSD) in the area of indigenization, a crucial topic in today’s context. He’s passionate about nation-building and has started a think tank called Security and Policy Initiatives (SAPI), which focuses on the absorption of technology and border management.
Today, we’re privileged to discuss this subject with Mr. Gupta, who has extensive exposure and a deep passion for it. Mr. Gupta, could you please explain ToT to our viewers?
Mr. Pradeep Gupta:
Thank you, Gen Ashok Kumar, for the kind introduction. I’d also like to thank the MRO Forum for this opportunity to discuss a subject I’m very passionate about.
ToT, or Technology Transfer, is a term that’s been used rather loosely over the years. If we look at the history of defense procurement in India since independence, we’ve often purchased weapons from abroad, sometimes with ToT included. However, this has led to a repetitive cycle: we acquire the technology, implement it to some extent, and then when the next generation of equipment is needed, we have to go back to the drawing board and seek a new ToT.
The problem is that we often receive technology but don’t fully absorb or internalize it. The key issue is that technology transfer should not be a passive process where we simply accept what the foreign vendor provides. It requires active engagement and a strong understanding from our side. In my experience, the effectiveness of ToT depends on the competence of the team receiving it.
Indian technocrats are among the best in the world, but we often struggle with systemic issues. When we receive ToT, it’s crucial to ask questions, understand the underlying principles, and not just follow instructions blindly. There’s also the matter of tacit knowledge—unwritten expertise crucial to fully mastering the technology. This is where our teams need to be proactive and smarter in their approach.
There are several ways to acquire weapons: outright purchase, leasing, research and development (R&D), and ToT. ToT is the quickest way to catch up technologically. However, it needs to be integrated with indigenous R&D to develop better designs and solutions. For instance, when designing a platform like an aircraft, we should combine our capabilities with components sourced from abroad, gradually increasing our self-reliance.
Maj Gen (Dr) Ashok Kumar (Retd):
Thank you, Mr. Gupta. You’ve brought up the important point that we need to be smarter, not just bookish, to succeed in ToT. While China is our adversary, we can learn from their focused approach to technology transfer. As we move towards indigenization, ToT has become a buzzword, especially in bridging the gap between current technologies and future needs. R&D, while crucial, is time-consuming, and may not always meet deadlines.
In your experience, how effective has ToT been so far, and what are some of the dos and don’ts for its utility in the defense forces?
Mr. Pradeep Gupta:
If I look back, most of what we’ve done so far has been more along the lines of licensed production rather than real ToT. There have been successes, notably in the missile domain, thanks to agencies like DRDO and ISRO. However, in many other areas—such as aircraft, artillery, ships, and submarines—we still have a long way to go.
When ToT is transferred to an entity like Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) or the defense workshops, it involves receiving documents, training personnel, and some hand-holding. But then, it’s often forgotten. To truly be effective, this process needs to be monitored and integrated with other similar technologies within India. For example, if we obtain a Fire Control System from abroad, we should integrate that knowledge with the guns we manufacture locally.
Effectiveness will be achieved when we can conceptualize our weapon systems independently, considering our unique requirements. Currently, many of the systems we use are designed abroad, which limits our self-reliance. We need to focus on generating and dominating technology in India, similar to how progress has been made in the pharmaceutical industry.
In engineering and weapon development, we can replicate this approach and catch up with advanced nations. The key is to internalize the knowledge gained from ToT and ensure it’s applied in a way that makes us more self-sufficient.
Maj Gen (Dr) Ashok Kumar (Retd) :
Thank you, Mr. Pradeep Gupta, for providing such insightful information. You’ve correctly pointed out that when dealing with a ToT related to a particular equipment or technology, we must also be aware of our entire weapon inventory. This awareness allows us to leverage the ToT across multiple systems. To truly benefit from the ToT, we need to develop an ecosystem and institutional mechanisms that ensure we get the most out of these technology transfers.
Moving closer to the subject of Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul (MRO), how do you see the linkage between MRO and ToT?
Mr. Pradeep Gupta:
That’s a good question. During the procurement process, especially for defense equipment, there is always a clause for maintenance training of the Armed Forces personnel. This training often involves interaction with the original equipment manufacturers (OEMs). At this stage, it’s essential to be well-prepared with questions to extract as much information as possible about the equipment’s functionality. This information should be carefully documented and shared with research institutions in India, as it provides insights into how the OEMs design and develop their systems.
MRO personnel can greatly contribute to the ToT process. For instance, while dealing with spare parts, they encounter various technical challenges and gain knowledge about the equipment. This knowledge can be used to support domestic research and development (R&D) efforts. Therefore, MRO is an integral part of the ToT process, and vice versa. Both are closely linked and support each other.
Maj Gen (Dr) Ashok Kumar (Retd):
Thank you, sir. You have effectively connected ToT and MRO in the real-world context. I’m confident that as India’s ecosystem develops to better leverage ToT in equipment production, we’ll see similar advancements in the MRO domain.
Before we conclude, could you provide some specific steps that need to be taken to fully leverage ToT, so that our viewers can better understand and implement these strategies?
Mr. Pradeep Gupta:
Thank you, Gen Ashok Kumar. Before answering your question directly, I want to pose a question: What happens when we focus solely on the indigenization of components for defense equipment? Imagine you successfully indigenize 100 components of a particular weapon system. This benefits the Indian industry, but what happens when that equipment is phased out? The small-scale industries involved in manufacturing those components will no longer have orders.
This is why it’s essential not just to indigenize components but to develop the capability to conceptualize, design, and produce entire weapon systems independently. This requires synergy among users, MRO personnel, researchers, and the industry that will eventually produce the weapons.
For example, the Indian Navy has done a commendable job in designing submarines and ships, and even an aircraft carrier. They have successfully integrated various components and leveraged ToT to enhance domestic capabilities. This model can be replicated across other services as well.
To fully leverage ToT, we need to:
1. Create a Central Repository: Establish a central repository of ToT information, documenting which technologies have been acquired, by whom, and for what purpose. This would allow for better coordination and integration of technologies across different platforms.
2. Use Advanced Technologies: Deploy modern tools like virtual reality (VR), augmented reality (AR), and artificial intelligence (AI) to design and simulate equipment. For example, using VR to design an Infantry Combat Vehicle (ICV) can help us finalize design parameters before physical manufacturing, saving time and resources.
3. Collaborate Across Sectors: Foster collaboration among various stakeholders—users, MRO personnel, researchers, and manufacturers—to ensure that the knowledge gained from ToT is fully utilized. This could also involve leveraging technologies like quantum computing to accelerate material design and other advanced processes.
By integrating these strategies, we can develop more efficient and effective weapon systems that are tailored to our specific needs, ultimately reducing our reliance on foreign technology.
Maj Gen (Dr) Ashok Kumar (Retd):
Thank you, Mr. Gupta, for your valuable insights. You’ve highlighted how modern technological tools like quantum computing, VR, AR, and 3D printing can not only reduce the need for ToT but also enhance our own capabilities. These tools can address areas where technology transfer has not occurred and allow us to bridge gaps more efficiently. Your emphasis on innovation and collaboration is crucial as we continue to navigate the challenges of defense technology.
Once again, thank you for your time and for sharing your expertise. I’m sure our viewers will greatly benefit from this discussion.
This was Major General Dr. Ashok Kumar, your dialogue host today, speaking with Mr. Pradeep Gupta, a subject matter expert on ToT. For any further queries or specific requirements, feel free to visit MROChannelForum.com. We look forward to interacting with you.
