(Lt Gen JS Matharu (Retd) JSM. Q1. Welcome to MRO Channel Forum. Over the past two years, we’ve been sharing valuable insights through this platform, and I felt it was time to take a step further by interacting directly with the eminent personalities who have contributed so much to our discussions.
For our first episode in this new series, I am honored to have a conversation with Major General (Dr) Ashok Kumar, VSM, who is the Director General at the CENJOWS. I have had the privilege of knowing him since my service days, and I must say that this platform owes much of its current success to his invaluable guidance and unwavering support, for which we remain deeply grateful.
General Ashok, may I begin by asking about your remarkable journey? Where and how did it all start, and what led you to this pivotal point in your career?
Maj Gen Ashok Kumar (Retd) AK. A1.
Thank you, sir, for giving me this opportunity. I’ve been contemplating writing my life story, especially in Hindi, as many colleagues, friends, and acquaintances have encouraged me to do so. There have been moments in my life where God has been exceptionally kind, and as I unfold my story, you will agree with me on this.
Early Life
I was born in a small village in Jaunpur district, Uttar Pradesh. My village sits on the border of Jaunpur and Pratapgarh districts. Interestingly, while administratively we were under Jaunpur, our postal district was Pratapgarh because a river separated us from Jaunpur, making Pratapgarh more accessible. This shaped our connectivity, education, and general lifestyle toward Pratapgarh.
I started my education in a neighboring village’s primary school, where my teachers and the community had high hopes for me. Around this time, the government introduced board exams for the fifth standard for the first time, and I was fortunate to stand first in the entire district. This was my first taste of academic success, and it motivated me to move on to a nearby secondary school about 1.5–2 km north of my village, where I studied until class 10.
Early Influences
My initial connection to the armed forces came indirectly through a distant relative in my extended family, who served as a religious teacher in the military. His wife, unable to read or write, would often ask me to read letters from him and write responses on her behalf. This was my first exposure to the military world—seeing the red envelopes of the forces—but it left only a passing impression.
Academic Journey
In the eighth grade, I received a government scholarship after clearing an integrated examination, which allowed me to continue in the same school despite the principal encouraging my father to let me move to a bigger institution. I stayed, eventually excelling in my 10th board exams, securing the 11th rank in the state of Uttar Pradesh. After that, I joined the Government Intermediate College (GIC) in Allahabad for my 11th and 12th grades.
Coming from a Hindi-medium background, my transition to the English-medium environment at GIC was challenging, especially in subjects like physics and chemistry. Despite this, I adapted and performed reasonably well, securing admission to the University of Allahabad for a two-year Bachelor of Science (BSc) degree. I chose physics, mathematics, and statistics as my subjects, aiming to top the university. Statistics appealed to me because of its mathematical nature and scoring potential.
First Encounter with the Armed Forces Exam
During my time at Allahabad University, I became influenced by socialist and progressive ideals, participating in lectures and societal debates. My exposure to the armed forces came again, but unexpectedly, during a casual conversation in my hostel.
One of my seniors, Mr. Brajesh Chandra Rai, announced that he was filling out the Combined Defence Services (CDS) examination form. Out of curiosity, I asked about it and learned more. Although he eventually decided against applying due to personal circumstances, his discarded form sparked my interest. I took the form back to my room and filled it out—not with serious intent to join the forces but with the thought of experiencing the process and traveling to new places for the Service Selection Board (SSB) interview, which was conducted free of cost for shortlisted candidates.
The SSB Journey
When the written exam results were announced, I cleared both the Air Force and Army papers. My SSB call, however, came for the Air Force in Varanasi. Initially, I wasn’t keen on attending since Varanasi was a familiar place and didn’t offer the allure of travel I had imagined. However, upon persuasion from friends, I borrowed essentials like shorts, shoes, and a T-shirt and decided to go.
At the SSB, we were 56 candidates. While I couldn’t clear the Pilot Aptitude Battery Test (PABT) for the Air Force, I was selected for the Army. Only three candidates cleared the SSB, and after medical evaluations, I was the sole candidate declared fit. Even then, I was unsure about joining, as my peers in Allahabad University were predominantly focused on pursuing IAS or IPS careers.
A Change of Mind
During a casual visit to my hostel warden, who was a distant relative, I shared my hesitation about joining the Army. He advised me to think practically. He explained the uncertainties of clearing the IAS exam and the financial strain it could place on my family, especially with my younger brother about to start college. He encouraged me to consider the certainty and prestige of becoming a commissioned officer in the Army at just 20 years old. His advice convinced me to give it a serious thought.
With renewed determination, I reported to the Indian Military Academy (IMA) in January 1983 as one of the youngest direct-entry cadets at the age of 19 years and one month. Once I entered the gates of IMA, my focus shifted entirely. I resolved to excel and rise through the ranks of the Indian Army.
Reflection
Looking back, I marvel at how a simple, discarded form in a hostel room changed the trajectory of my life. From a village where I couldn’t speak proper Hindi, I progressed to becoming an officer in one of the world’s finest armies. It wasn’t just my academic abilities but also a series of fortunate encounters and honest intent that guided my journey.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s this: no matter where you start, with sincerity and determination, you can chart a meaningful path. Success may take its own time, but it will come if you stay true to your purpose.
JSM. Q2, This is a very engrossing story, and one point that stands out is when the discarded form was lying in the dustbin, and you picked it up. Even though you were considering other career options at the time, what made you decide to pick up that form? Was it because you knew it would lead you down a different path, one that you weren’t necessarily planning on? Perhaps your uncle’s influence in the army or your proximity to an army facility played a role, but what was it that made you take that step and pick up the form?
AK. A2. Actually, it wasn’t so much about being oriented towards the Army. Frankly speaking, the reason I picked up the form was more because the Combined Defence Services (CDS) examination, like the Civil Services (IAS) exam, is conducted by the Union Public Service Commission. I thought that reading about the exam and going through the process might provide me with some exposure, even if I wasn’t fully clear about joining the army at that time.
To be honest, I didn’t have a strong intention to join the army, but things just seemed to unfold one after another. As I mentioned, it wasn’t necessary for me to pick up that discarded form, but I did. And when I look back, at each stage, there was an element of destiny. For instance, the decision to go for the Services Selection Board (SSB), despite not having a proper photograph or being able to speak fluent English, was a step I took. I ended up attempting the SSB with a mix of Hindi and English.
Despite all these uncertainties, I got selected. Then came the medicals, followed by my indecision about whether to join or not. It was then that I met Mr. Dixit my distant relative, who shared his perspective and motivated me. He explained that by joining the army, I wouldn’t be a financial burden on my father, and this would allow the family to prosper. That’s when the motivation became real for me.
JSM. Q3. That’s such a beautiful story because it feels like destiny was guiding you. At the same time, there were so many other factors at play—like your sense of responsibility to your family, deciding it would be better to ease your father’s burden, and your early awareness of the significance of the UPSC examinations.
Now, going back to the beginning of your journey, you were doing well in your studies and gradually developed an even stronger drive to excel, influenced by the encouragement of those around you. What would you say to our viewers about how you became increasingly interested in your studies as time went on? What motivated you to keep pushing yourself to do better?
AK. A3. My father had a dream—before me, no one in our village had cleared the 10th standard with a first division. He himself was the first in the village to graduate high school, though he did so with a third division. Despite that, he worked as a UP government employee and saw children of his officers consistently achieving first divisions. This inspired him to dream that one day his son would achieve the same in matriculation.
From the very beginning, I seemed to have a natural gift for academics, and my focus was entirely on studies. Until my 10th standard, I was unaware of anything beyond academics. I remember an incident vividly: in November, just months before my board exams, I was walking on the rooftop of our house. My father came to me and asked why I wasn’t studying more since the exams were approaching. I confidently told him, “Pita Ji (as I called him), there is nothing in my syllabus that I don’t already know.” In fact, I challenged him to pick any book and point to a word, and I would tell him exactly where it appeared—whether it was on the left or right page, and whether it was on the top, middle, or bottom. That was the level of preparation and focus I had, which I attribute to God’s blessings.
From a young age, I was also fond of writing poems and articles, a passion that stayed with me throughout my life. Reflecting on my academic journey, even during my career in the defense forces, my inclination to study, comprehend, and analyze has always been a defining trait. It has significantly contributed to my personal growth and professional success.
JSM. Q4. Your ability to recall facts and speak extemporaneously with accuracy has always stood out. Hearing your story about confidently telling your father to test your knowledge from any book explains the origin of this remarkable skill.
Another striking aspect of your journey is how destiny seemed to guide you, often through the advice and encouragement of Good Samaritans—whether they were relatives or unrelated well-wishers. These individuals appeared at key moments, nudging you in the right direction.
What are your thoughts on this? Do you believe such guiding figures, or “angels,” play a role in everyone’s life? Based on your experiences, have you observed this phenomenon in the lives of others?
AK. A4. I believe so, sir. There’s a Sanskrit saying that reflects this idea: *“You start thinking in the direction your destiny is meant to unfold.”*
For example, when I had initially decided not to attend the SSB interview, a remarkable coincidence occurred. I visited the home of a classmate, whose father was an economics professor at Allahabad University. Their house was just 400 meters from my hostel, and while I was a frequent visitor, it was the first time I went there that particular morning.
It happened to be the same day I was supposed to leave for Varanasi, and during that visit, a conversation took place that became pivotal to my decision. If I had delayed or missed that moment, the opportunity may have been lost entirely.
Looking back, I feel that such moments are not random. They are part of a larger design, where God, or whatever higher power one believes in, orchestrates these circumstances. My journey into the Army was the result of such coincidences and the presence of good people along the way—people who seemed to be placed there with divine grace to guide me.
JSM. Q5. You mentioned that when you attended the SSB, there were 56 candidates, yet only three were selected, and ultimately, due to medical reasons, you were the only one to move forward. Considering the circumstances you described—reaching there almost by chance, without perfect fluency in English, or a polished external appearance—what does this experience tell us about the SSB selection process?
Do you think this highlights the strength of the system in identifying true officer material, focusing on qualities beyond surface-level attributes? Could you share your thoughts on what makes SSB such an effective selection process?
AK. A5. Absolutely. That’s a very pertinent question, and I can share from my experience that the SSB selection process is truly remarkable in identifying core leadership qualities and character traits. The way I went through the SSB, interacting with the Group Testing Officers (GTOs), interviewing officers, and psychologists, gave me a deep insight into the system’s effectiveness.
The psychological tests, for instance, felt natural to me—whether it was the Word Association Test (WAT), Thematic Apperception Test (TAT), or other exercises. I believe the foundation for this ease was the value system instilled in me by my family and education. These values reflected in my responses, and I think the SSB could gauge my leadership potential and character through those reflections.
Take the group tasks, for example. In the full group task, a team of eight is given a challenge to accomplish collectively. The objective is to succeed as a team, not as an individual. Being naturally inclined to help others and focusing on teamwork rather than personal glory allowed me to stand out. When it came to the half-group task, which focuses more on individual qualities, my approach to collaboration and problem-solving was further emphasized.
In the individual task, participants are asked to select two teammates to help execute the task. Naturally, you choose individuals who demonstrate selflessness and teamwork. Out of the seven other candidates, every single one chose me as part of their team. That kind of unanimous acceptability validated my traits as a team player, someone dependable and trustworthy.
At that time, I didn’t fully understand these concepts or how the Army valued them, but looking back, it’s clear that these were the characteristics the SSB was evaluating. Over the years, I’ve even guided several candidates preparing for the SSB. My advice to them has always been: if you want to be seen as a particular type of person, such as a team player, don’t just act like it for the SSB—be that person in your daily life. Whether it’s at school, college, or in the workplace, develop these qualities naturally.
The trust that the SSB placed in me through its process left a deep impression. It made me believe in the meritocratic foundation of the Army. This realization also played a significant role in my decision to ultimately join the Army, based on the advice of the Economics professor, who saw potential in me for this career path. It was the assurance that in such an organization, merit and character would truly matter that inspired me to take this step.
JSM. Q6. How do you feel your value system—shaped by your family, surroundings, and teachers—contributed to your strong sense of teamwork and helpfulness? What specific influences or experiences during your early years do you think played a role in building these qualities in you before you reached the SSB?
AK. A6. Certainly. The environment I grew up in played a significant role in shaping my sense of teamwork and helpfulness. Our village had a unique dynamic where many men worked in far-off places like Kolkata or Mumbai and only visited home once a year. In their absence, their wives, most of whom were uneducated, managed everything on their own.
I often helped these women by writing letters for them, as they wanted to communicate with their husbands. It wasn’t just writing; I would listen to their thoughts and help express them in the right words. This involved around 20 to 25 women, and while other children would joke around or leave, I felt a strong sense of responsibility to assist them.
This culture of helping wasn’t limited to that. Whenever someone in the village fell ill, there was a collective effort to support them, and I actively participated in such moments. The village atmosphere itself fostered a spirit of teamwork and care for others, and this naturally became a part of my thought process.
Even during my college days, I carried forward this mindset. I never missed college, even in adverse weather, and during holidays or Sundays, I would help other children by teaching them mathematics. It was ingrained in me to be available and supportive.
I feel these experiences, filled with care and a sense of community, deeply influenced me. However, I do notice that such values, which were a natural part of village life, are becoming less common in today’s changing world. But for me, they formed the foundation of my character and instilled a genuine love for teamwork and helping others.
JSM. Q7. After retiring from the Army, in which you rose to a very high rank, having held significant positions such as the Additional Director General of a major organization. Now, you are serving as the Director General of the CENJOWS. Could you share what motivated you and guided your transition into the path you are currently pursuing after your retirement?
AK. A7. Well, as I mentioned earlier, writing has always been a passion of mine, and throughout my college and university days, I was deeply involved in writing for magazines and other platforms. Even in the Army, while the writing was more focused on office tasks like making notes and providing comments, I continued to write articles whenever possible, although the process of clearance often delayed publication. Despite these constraints, my passion for writing remained strong.
After my retirement, I decided to channel my passion into a field that truly resonated with me—reading, writing, and sharing my thoughts. This was the driving force behind my shift into my current role. It’s a matter of chance that I found an opportunity where I could continue working closely in the area I am passionate about.
As for staying updated, I see it as a combination of my passion and hard work. In the varied fields I explore, I rely on continuous learning—reading extensively, engaging with new sources of information, and always striving to stay informed. My inspiration comes from the intrinsic satisfaction of learning and the drive to share that knowledge with others. It requires consistent effort, but my passion for these subjects keeps me motivated and engaged.
JSM. Q8. Obviously, your passion explains a lot, but I can see it also requires a lot of hard work. How do you stay updated across the variety of fields you’re involved in? What is your inspiration for constantly seeking to know more, and how do you manage to stay informed in all these different areas?
AK. A8. The passion itself is my inspiration, honestly speaking. Over time, I’ve developed an interest in various fields, including geopolitics, healthcare, policy formulation, and education. There isn’t a specific area where I don’t have interest. Some people advise me to focus on a single area and become a specialist, but I prefer to explore multiple fields. It involves constant reading, talking, hearing, and interacting with others while maintaining the mindset that I’m always a learner. Whether it’s juniors, colleagues, or superiors, there’s always something to learn every day.
After my service, the initial challenge was that in the Army, there was little conventional connection with the media. As a result, articles I wrote initially didn’t get published. I faced rejections, but I kept submitting. Slowly, with the rise of digital media, articles started getting published, and traction began to build. Media houses started approaching me to write or appear on TV discussions. This led to more opportunities, and I wrote two books. I’m also planning to write two or three more books in the future, though it’s still uncertain when they’ll be published.
JSM. Q9. What advice would you give to someone with similar interests to yours, who is looking to pursue something similar after retirement, based on your own experience and achievements?
AK. A9. I would advise that they should only enter this field if they are truly passionate about it, as success in this area comes with hard work and dedication, and is not always guaranteed. It’s easy to get discouraged when comparing oneself to others, especially in a field like defense, where a few prominent names dominate the media. However, if your passion is aligned with a greater cause, like you’ve done with MRO Channel Forum, it can keep you motivated. Having a purpose—whether it’s giving back to society or supporting the defense forces—can drive success. There’s plenty of opportunity for growth in this field, as long as you’re committed to your passion and the cause.
JSM. Q10. As we come to the end of our conversation, what would be one or two key takeaways you would like to share with the audience? Any final thoughts or reflections from your life’s experiences that you would like to leave them with?
AK. A10. For those in the early stages of their career, it’s important to factor in domestic responsibilities, even if it means compromising on career aspirations, as I did in my case. However, for those entering the second phase of their career, where much has already been achieved, the focus should be on passion—passion and nothing else. And if that passion can be aligned with a purpose, such as giving back to society in some way, that is the golden principle to follow. This is the approach I live by, and I believe it’s the way forward in life.
JSM: Thank you so much, General Ashok. As I’ve mentioned several times, it’s been a truly wonderful experience speaking with you. I believe this conversation will be valuable to anyone who listens, and I am deeply grateful that you accepted my invitation to be the first guest in this series of interviews. I look forward to reconnecting with you in the future, as there are so many more questions I’d like to ask, but due to time constraints, we couldn’t cover them all today. Hopefully, we can pick up these threads another time. Thank you once again!
AK: I just want to express my gratitude, as procrastination is something we all experience. I’ve been delaying writing my life story in three phases: how I joined the Army, my journey within the Army, and life beyond it. I’m not sure when I’ll be able to complete it, but speaking with you today has helped refresh many memories. I’m truly grateful for the opportunity to revisit those life moments with you.
JSM: In fact, I promise that once we upload this recording and I receive the transcript, I will send it to you. It will serve as seed material for writing your story, and I’m sure you’ll have much more to add. With that, we come to the end of this episode. We look forward to bringing more eminent personalities like General Ashok Kumar and sharing their life stories. Thank you very much for tuning in and listening. Jai Hind!
